“When you look at white male content online,” says John Robins, “so much of it is about maximum efficiency: how to optimise your life, hit your goals, be high performance in every possible way, get your macros right…”

“…so that you’re not wasting your time in the gym,” Elis James chips in.

“Or,” Robins continues, “it’s pretty toxic stuff . So it’s nice to have accidentally become an example of two white men who can be vulnerable and affectionate, honest and unafraid to discuss your own flaws, expansive and nerdy, and just not bring negativity into the world – even if I occasionally moan about stuff in my own life.”

(“Only occasionally?” James interjects, laughing.)

That, in essence, is what has made Elis James and John Robins such a singular force in British audio. Where so many ma

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